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	<title>Comments on: How to spot a mega-church refugee</title>
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		<title>By: Carol Howard Merritt</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-25224</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Howard Merritt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470#comment-25224</guid>
		<description>Barbara,

Evangelicals tend to take their Bibles to church, while Mainliners (like Lutherans) often do not. 

In the Evangelical church that I was raised in, we were taught to read our Bibles and mark in them during the service, as a part of studying. As children, we were given gold stars if we brought our own Bible from home. 

But, in most Presbyterian or Lutheran churches, there are Bibles provided in the pews. So, if you want to follow along, you can. There is also more of an idea that the spoken word is important and so a person can listen without necessarily having to follow along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barbara,</p>
<p>Evangelicals tend to take their Bibles to church, while Mainliners (like Lutherans) often do not. </p>
<p>In the Evangelical church that I was raised in, we were taught to read our Bibles and mark in them during the service, as a part of studying. As children, we were given gold stars if we brought our own Bible from home. </p>
<p>But, in most Presbyterian or Lutheran churches, there are Bibles provided in the pews. So, if you want to follow along, you can. There is also more of an idea that the spoken word is important and so a person can listen without necessarily having to follow along.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-25220</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470#comment-25220</guid>
		<description>Could you explain -- what is the function of bringing a Bible to church? I don&#039;t remember anyone ever doing that, but I was raised Lutheran. Exactly what is done with these Bibles, do you know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you explain &#8212; what is the function of bringing a Bible to church? I don&#8217;t remember anyone ever doing that, but I was raised Lutheran. Exactly what is done with these Bibles, do you know?</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Howard Merritt</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-24615</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Howard Merritt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m so glad you found a wonderful, vibrant community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad you found a wonderful, vibrant community.</p>
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		<title>By: Boomer On a Journey</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-24614</link>
		<dc:creator>Boomer On a Journey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470#comment-24614</guid>
		<description>Carol -- I don&#039;t know how I stumbled on your blog site, but I&#039;m glad I did.  I&#039;m an aging Boomer who has gone through an amazing (for me anyway) faith transformation over the last 30+ years.  Fortunately, I have been blessed to having been married to a Godly Woman for 28 of those years who is being transformed along with me.

My wife and I grew up in the Reformed Church in America (RCA).  I&#039;m sure you&#039;re very aware that the RCA is almost theologically and doctrinally identical to the Presbyterian Church.  I&#039;m presently an Elder on Consistory (Session) and my wife was ordained as a Deacon in the PCUSA in the church we attended until early 2002 (National Capital Presbytery, coincidentally).  Our childhood/youth RCA congregation in upstate NY was a typical conservative &amp; traditional church.  I eventually became the organist/choir director in college and my wife was the cornerstone of the alto section before I departed on my Air Force career after college.

The first measurable transformation event occured in 1985 when I was assigned to Los Angeles AFB, CA.  We knew that the RCA had been in southern CA since the 1920s and we found an incredible congregation -- Emmanuel Reformed Church in Paramount.  It was the largest church we had ever attended -- over 1000 members.  They were growing and bursting at the seams -- not because of a big campus or glitzy programs.  We grew (and they are still growing) because the church was externally-focused and relevant.  ERC&#039;s mission work in the community was relevant, met people&#039;s needs, and was non-judgmental.  People who had never set foot in a church or who had turned away from the church came to ERC and stayed.  It was because it wasn&#039;t about us.  As a matter of fact, we never made a big deal about who we were or what church we were from when we were out in the community.  The cool thing was 1-1 ministry without preconditions or prerequisites; the &quot;God thing&quot; takes care of itself.  Isn&#039;t this exactly how Jesus conducted his earthly ministry?

Just down the freeway from Emmanuel was the largest church in the RCA -- the Crystal Cathedral.  In stark contrast, we found a church focused more on growth and programs than serving people in a Christ-like manner.  The ministries and missions were there, but, it was hard to find them because outreach wasn&#039;t the CC&#039;s highest priority.  Perhaps this is the kind of mega-church of which you write?

We moved here in 1991 and we started attending a PCUSA congregation in NOVA.  We joined the music program and I eventually, once again, became the organist/choir director.  The people were nice (on the surface anyway) and the building was historic.  The affluence of the congregation was readily apparent just by observing the price range of the cars in the parking lot on Sunday morning.  Somewhere in the next few years, we realized that the congregation was focused on themselves.  They worshipped their historic building, their denomination, and themselves.  In the fastest growing county in the DC region, the membership remained static and the giving was just enough to keep the church functioning.  There was strife, division, cliques, gossip, pastors and lay leaders driven away, etc.  I would go running on a bike path and would see homeless people living under highway bridges.  This church had the financial resources in the congregation to be a relevant God-force in the community, but, they weren&#039;t interested.  

About the same time, contemporary music entered my repetoire.  I became very interested in what was going on in Australia at Hillsong Church and in the music of some of the 1980s and 90s writers.  It occured to me that these people were doing exactly the same thing which Bach and Handel had done 350 years ago -- taking contemporary music which the people knew and writing God-words instead of secular lyrics.  The Church understood how powerful a worship tool contemporary music could be, but, the mainline denominations generally forgot this truth somewhere in the early 20th Century.  Today, some of the writing of Hillsong writers and other young Christian musicians is extraordinarily insightful and theological well beyond their years.  20-something Christian songwriters writing what they&#039;re writing these days is truly a gift from God.

Lots of God-things came together in late 2001.  We had continued to diverge from our church&#039;s inward focus and became objects of gossip and criticism ourselves.  We found an RCA congregation in Maryland not too far from where we lived.  While I was overseas on a trip, I encouraged my wife to check them out on the Sunday I was gone.  To make a long story short, we found a growing congregation which accepted each other without condition and which was passionately focused on people and what was going on in the outside world.  We knew this was God&#039;s plan for us and we left our local Presbyterian church a month or so later.  Our new church is a church plant in 1991.  We met in a school until moving into our new building in 2003.  We found that a church like ours has these characteristics:

1. A congregation made up of mostly previously unchurched or formerly churched people who had drifted away because of a bad experience;
2. An informal worship style -- Why be a different person on Sunday than you are during the other 6 days of the week?
3. Contemporary music -- What people are used to hearing on the radio

The growth happens -- sometimes even into mega-church size -- if you are relevant and meet people&#039;s needs.  We tithe each week&#039;s offerings to mission work.  Our on-the-rolls membership is about 230, but, on a typical Sunday, we attract anywhere from 350-400 people to our two services.  On a given Sunday, we laugh, we cry, we clap, we say &quot;Amen&quot; and some lift their hands in abandoned worship when the Spirit moves.  We have a projector and screen for lyrics, Scripture readings, pictures, You Tube videos and DVD excerpts used during messages.  We do all of this and are still completely Reformed in our doctrine and polity.  I&#039;m not propping up our congregation any more than anyone else.  But, I am saying that my observations have been that churches in the U.S. and abroad which I have attended that are growing are doing so because they are relevant and are committed to being &quot;out there.&quot;  

These &quot;mega-church refugees,&quot; like the rest of us, have a story.  It would be interesting to find out if they would be willing to share it with you on a Sunday morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carol &#8212; I don&#8217;t know how I stumbled on your blog site, but I&#8217;m glad I did.  I&#8217;m an aging Boomer who has gone through an amazing (for me anyway) faith transformation over the last 30+ years.  Fortunately, I have been blessed to having been married to a Godly Woman for 28 of those years who is being transformed along with me.</p>
<p>My wife and I grew up in the Reformed Church in America (RCA).  I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re very aware that the RCA is almost theologically and doctrinally identical to the Presbyterian Church.  I&#8217;m presently an Elder on Consistory (Session) and my wife was ordained as a Deacon in the PCUSA in the church we attended until early 2002 (National Capital Presbytery, coincidentally).  Our childhood/youth RCA congregation in upstate NY was a typical conservative &amp; traditional church.  I eventually became the organist/choir director in college and my wife was the cornerstone of the alto section before I departed on my Air Force career after college.</p>
<p>The first measurable transformation event occured in 1985 when I was assigned to Los Angeles AFB, CA.  We knew that the RCA had been in southern CA since the 1920s and we found an incredible congregation &#8212; Emmanuel Reformed Church in Paramount.  It was the largest church we had ever attended &#8212; over 1000 members.  They were growing and bursting at the seams &#8212; not because of a big campus or glitzy programs.  We grew (and they are still growing) because the church was externally-focused and relevant.  ERC&#8217;s mission work in the community was relevant, met people&#8217;s needs, and was non-judgmental.  People who had never set foot in a church or who had turned away from the church came to ERC and stayed.  It was because it wasn&#8217;t about us.  As a matter of fact, we never made a big deal about who we were or what church we were from when we were out in the community.  The cool thing was 1-1 ministry without preconditions or prerequisites; the &#8220;God thing&#8221; takes care of itself.  Isn&#8217;t this exactly how Jesus conducted his earthly ministry?</p>
<p>Just down the freeway from Emmanuel was the largest church in the RCA &#8212; the Crystal Cathedral.  In stark contrast, we found a church focused more on growth and programs than serving people in a Christ-like manner.  The ministries and missions were there, but, it was hard to find them because outreach wasn&#8217;t the CC&#8217;s highest priority.  Perhaps this is the kind of mega-church of which you write?</p>
<p>We moved here in 1991 and we started attending a PCUSA congregation in NOVA.  We joined the music program and I eventually, once again, became the organist/choir director.  The people were nice (on the surface anyway) and the building was historic.  The affluence of the congregation was readily apparent just by observing the price range of the cars in the parking lot on Sunday morning.  Somewhere in the next few years, we realized that the congregation was focused on themselves.  They worshipped their historic building, their denomination, and themselves.  In the fastest growing county in the DC region, the membership remained static and the giving was just enough to keep the church functioning.  There was strife, division, cliques, gossip, pastors and lay leaders driven away, etc.  I would go running on a bike path and would see homeless people living under highway bridges.  This church had the financial resources in the congregation to be a relevant God-force in the community, but, they weren&#8217;t interested.  </p>
<p>About the same time, contemporary music entered my repetoire.  I became very interested in what was going on in Australia at Hillsong Church and in the music of some of the 1980s and 90s writers.  It occured to me that these people were doing exactly the same thing which Bach and Handel had done 350 years ago &#8212; taking contemporary music which the people knew and writing God-words instead of secular lyrics.  The Church understood how powerful a worship tool contemporary music could be, but, the mainline denominations generally forgot this truth somewhere in the early 20th Century.  Today, some of the writing of Hillsong writers and other young Christian musicians is extraordinarily insightful and theological well beyond their years.  20-something Christian songwriters writing what they&#8217;re writing these days is truly a gift from God.</p>
<p>Lots of God-things came together in late 2001.  We had continued to diverge from our church&#8217;s inward focus and became objects of gossip and criticism ourselves.  We found an RCA congregation in Maryland not too far from where we lived.  While I was overseas on a trip, I encouraged my wife to check them out on the Sunday I was gone.  To make a long story short, we found a growing congregation which accepted each other without condition and which was passionately focused on people and what was going on in the outside world.  We knew this was God&#8217;s plan for us and we left our local Presbyterian church a month or so later.  Our new church is a church plant in 1991.  We met in a school until moving into our new building in 2003.  We found that a church like ours has these characteristics:</p>
<p>1. A congregation made up of mostly previously unchurched or formerly churched people who had drifted away because of a bad experience;<br />
2. An informal worship style &#8212; Why be a different person on Sunday than you are during the other 6 days of the week?<br />
3. Contemporary music &#8212; What people are used to hearing on the radio</p>
<p>The growth happens &#8212; sometimes even into mega-church size &#8212; if you are relevant and meet people&#8217;s needs.  We tithe each week&#8217;s offerings to mission work.  Our on-the-rolls membership is about 230, but, on a typical Sunday, we attract anywhere from 350-400 people to our two services.  On a given Sunday, we laugh, we cry, we clap, we say &#8220;Amen&#8221; and some lift their hands in abandoned worship when the Spirit moves.  We have a projector and screen for lyrics, Scripture readings, pictures, You Tube videos and DVD excerpts used during messages.  We do all of this and are still completely Reformed in our doctrine and polity.  I&#8217;m not propping up our congregation any more than anyone else.  But, I am saying that my observations have been that churches in the U.S. and abroad which I have attended that are growing are doing so because they are relevant and are committed to being &#8220;out there.&#8221;  </p>
<p>These &#8220;mega-church refugees,&#8221; like the rest of us, have a story.  It would be interesting to find out if they would be willing to share it with you on a Sunday morning.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Howard Merritt</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-21888</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Howard Merritt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470#comment-21888</guid>
		<description>I hope my daughter is able to work out her faith and beliefs for herself! That would be wonderful.

Actually, my mom is a much more successful writer than I am. She wrote four books, that sold over a half a million copies altogether, and she was a regular writer for a religious magazine. My parents were on the 700 Club, etc. She wrote funny/embarrassing stories about us growing up... so it&#039;s pay-back time! 

Just kidding. Of course.

Mom and Dad have been very supportive of my choices, even though they don&#039;t always agree with them. 

I&#039;m open to change. That&#039;s one of the scariest things about writing. It can be a such a permanent imprint in an evolving world and life. 

I didn&#039;t mean to keep this post up for so long. I&#039;ve just been in North Carolina preaching for a sermon series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope my daughter is able to work out her faith and beliefs for herself! That would be wonderful.</p>
<p>Actually, my mom is a much more successful writer than I am. She wrote four books, that sold over a half a million copies altogether, and she was a regular writer for a religious magazine. My parents were on the 700 Club, etc. She wrote funny/embarrassing stories about us growing up&#8230; so it&#8217;s pay-back time! </p>
<p>Just kidding. Of course.</p>
<p>Mom and Dad have been very supportive of my choices, even though they don&#8217;t always agree with them. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m open to change. That&#8217;s one of the scariest things about writing. It can be a such a permanent imprint in an evolving world and life. </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to keep this post up for so long. I&#8217;ve just been in North Carolina preaching for a sermon series.</p>
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		<title>By: Church Lover</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-21886</link>
		<dc:creator>Church Lover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470#comment-21886</guid>
		<description>You know Carol you have reached the point in your career where you are no longer a child living under your parent view and approaches.  You have reviewed those approaches, kept some and rejected others.  Have developed your own approaches which have received national attention (chances are your parents did not reach the level of national respect that you have).

It will be interesting how your approaches to life and church works out.  Who knows, some 20 to 30 years from now your child may process your approaches too (that is unless the religious right is correct, and Jesus comes back and takes us home).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know Carol you have reached the point in your career where you are no longer a child living under your parent view and approaches.  You have reviewed those approaches, kept some and rejected others.  Have developed your own approaches which have received national attention (chances are your parents did not reach the level of national respect that you have).</p>
<p>It will be interesting how your approaches to life and church works out.  Who knows, some 20 to 30 years from now your child may process your approaches too (that is unless the religious right is correct, and Jesus comes back and takes us home).</p>
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		<title>By: CC Pastor</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-21810</link>
		<dc:creator>CC Pastor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470#comment-21810</guid>
		<description>I would say the mainline church is full of evangelicals.  I would be surprised if even a large minority of the Presbyterian Church USA supports LGBTs.  I would even think there are more Presbyterian that would fit your somewhat negative view of evangelicals than would support LGBTs.  

I did find your post funny.  I just do not think Mega church is what most evangelicals are about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say the mainline church is full of evangelicals.  I would be surprised if even a large minority of the Presbyterian Church USA supports LGBTs.  I would even think there are more Presbyterian that would fit your somewhat negative view of evangelicals than would support LGBTs.  </p>
<p>I did find your post funny.  I just do not think Mega church is what most evangelicals are about.</p>
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		<title>By: Christy Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-21726</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470#comment-21726</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this. Used it in a sermon about how people are included in church. With credit and appreciation of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this. Used it in a sermon about how people are included in church. With credit and appreciation of course.</p>
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		<title>By: HeIsSailing</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-21566</link>
		<dc:creator>HeIsSailing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470#comment-21566</guid>
		<description>CHM asks:
&lt;i&gt;Do you have pointers?&lt;/i&gt;

I think you hit one of the biggies - they migrated to Calvary Chapel and many became CC Pastors.  Chuck Smith took lots of these displaced hippies into his church back in the day.  Most are now at, or nearing retirement age.  Yikes - time flies.

The only other sign I can think of at the moment is that they still mourn the passing of Keith Green and still wait for The 2nd Chapter of Acts to reform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CHM asks:<br />
<i>Do you have pointers?</i></p>
<p>I think you hit one of the biggies &#8211; they migrated to Calvary Chapel and many became CC Pastors.  Chuck Smith took lots of these displaced hippies into his church back in the day.  Most are now at, or nearing retirement age.  Yikes &#8211; time flies.</p>
<p>The only other sign I can think of at the moment is that they still mourn the passing of Keith Green and still wait for The 2nd Chapter of Acts to reform.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Howard Merritt</title>
		<link>http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470&#038;cpage=1#comment-21552</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Howard Merritt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 10:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tribalchurch.org/?p=1470#comment-21552</guid>
		<description>HIS,

That was great! I forgot about the donuts... dang, they would hand out those Krispy Kremes by the truckload. 

I don&#039;t know how to spot Jesus Movement refugees. Where have they migrated to? The Calvary Chapel church had a lot of them.

Brian and I have had fun watching some JM documentaries--Frisbee, and there was another one.... They were so interesting. Do you have pointers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HIS,</p>
<p>That was great! I forgot about the donuts&#8230; dang, they would hand out those Krispy Kremes by the truckload. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how to spot Jesus Movement refugees. Where have they migrated to? The Calvary Chapel church had a lot of them.</p>
<p>Brian and I have had fun watching some JM documentaries&#8211;Frisbee, and there was another one&#8230;. They were so interesting. Do you have pointers?</p>
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