Comments on: Are we counselors?

By: wts

wts — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:59:38 +0000

This debate is not limited to clergy. Doctors, nurses, social workers, case workers, cops, teachers, etc. have an informal “counseling” role. Even volunteer mentors do some things similar to “counseling.” Friends and relatives too.

Obviously, these types of “counseling” are not the same as formal counseling, but they happen and can be very beneficial.

By: Janet Bohren

Janet Bohren — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:17:13 +0000

I think the general consensus in the comments above is that pastors do some level of counseling in their jobs. I was wondering if lay people expect different things or seek counseling for different reasons, depending on if the pastor is a man or a woman. Also how does age and ethnicity play into the pastor’s role as a counselor?

By: Ellen Haroutunian

Ellen Haroutunian — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:19:55 +0000

There’s nothing I love more than a pastor who is willing to lean into the deeper pain and problems in the lives of the sheep. They can be such a taste of Jesus. They can be life-changing. However, I am a therapist as well and too often find myself working with people with wounds that have been inflicted by well-meaning pastors who really don’t know how to counsel. The few counseling courses we got in seminary really aren’t enough. I guess I want to encourage the shepherding heart but remind all the good shepherds to be careful and walk in people’s hearts with their shoes removed. Blessings on your work, everyone.

By: Christina Berry

Christina Berry — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:35:12 +0000

As a former counselor/psychotherapist, now a minister, I see the point that was being made but, like others, disagree that the distinction is that clear-cut. In my practice, I frequently received referrals from clergy for issues that went beyond their role; I particularly remember the clergy who needed another professional to ratify decisions they had made not to perform weddings.

Now, though I am trained in clinical work, I don’t do much of it, even in pastoral counseling situations. Apart from the reality that I simply don’t have that much available time, I think it is important to help folks get the care that best fits their needs, and my role is only one part of that. I’m blessed, though, to be able to respond to folks on both the pastoral and the clinical levels.

Like it or not, we are counselors, often the first point of contact for people who are struggling. We need to take that seriously, I think.

By: Doug

Doug — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:00:42 +0000

The most important consideration for me, though, is almost always humility. I can’t assume that I am qualified to do everything in the world, and I need to know what to do when I hit a limit of my proficiency. I can, however, have a good sense of where my strengths and competencies actually are, and not let someone else tell me what I can and can’t do to care for someone

By: Doug

Doug — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:59:23 +0000

In short, yes, as a pastor, I am a also a *pastoral* (rather than clinical) counselor. I think that part of our seminary training is in basic counseling and pastoral care practices, and in my presbytery at least I was required to complete at least one unit of CPE (I went on to complete a full year, but at first that was mostly because I needed a paying job of some kind). I like to assume that this is for a reason, and that reason is not to be told I am not allowed to counsel anyone. Why did I waste all that time and money learning how to counsel people then?

Counselors are crucial for clinical care – but not all care is clinical care; not by a long shot. I think that in our culture we tend to be a little fetishistic about having a clinician to talk to, which goes hand-in-hand with what I think is over-diagnosing across the board.

Lots of people can’t afford the hundred bucks a session to see a counselor once a week, and lots of churches can’t afford to help pay for that service. Much of the time, frankly, it isn’t necessary. There are pastors who are bad at counseling and there are counselors who are bad at counseling. There are also things a counselor can deal with best (such as genuine mental illness, in which case clinical training is a huge help) but there are also things a pastor can do better.

I saw this personally in my year of work at the hospital as a chaplain in the behavioral health departments. I worked well with the clinicians with inpatients and outpatients both, and we collaborated with patient care, but it was clear that I had advantages that were different from theirs.

I would say for behavioral health or mental health issues, such as major depression, bipolar, borderline personality, and maybe addiction, a clinical counselor can be very important to add into the mix. Even then, though, I wouldn’t hand the person off, I’d just recognize that they also need some clinical care to complement my pastoral care.

By: Buzz

Buzz — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:43:24 +0000

As a result of my CPE training I often counsel in groups. Typically with college students and young adults they are more guarded about their emotional issues and questions, they feel as if their faults are “their Fualt”. When we break out, I ofetn get one or two who want to follow up. I do much the same as many of you because I am not lisenced, I just try to be a empathedic listener. But I have noticed one trend in all my years of these follow up sessions, %99 of my young adults and students that follow with me the two or three times we meet fall into Two Groups; 1.) The one who wants permission 2.) the one who wants forgiveness…….They never say it right out, but that is the basis of the visit. Peace….

By: Herray

Herray — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:17:10 +0000

As someone who struggles with mental illness, I know when to contact a psychiatrist, when to see a therapist, and when to talk to my pastor. Each person has a specific role in my mental health care. Sometimes the only thing that really helps me when I’m feeling particularly manic or depressed is to pray with a minister. I think it’s important to remember that we are whole people: our mental, physical, and spiritual selves cannot be separated. So, we may need “counseling” in many different ways, especially in spiritual, pastoral ways. Thank you to all of the pastors out there who lend an ear and offer prayers! We need your “counseling” just as much as we need mental health professionals.

By: a chaplain

a chaplain — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:05:45 +0000

As a chaplain working in the marketplace (restaurants, insurance companies, automotive service centers), we are told to emphasize that we do not counsel. However, we do have “confidential pastoral discussions.”

This releases us from the liability that is involved in the traditional counseling situations.

Of course, confidential pastoral discussions look and smell a lot like counseling sessions. However, we are free to pray and give scriptual and spiritual direction. While we never give chapter and verse, most scriptural advice is good common sense.

By: Mark Baker-Wright

Mark Baker-Wright — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:07:05 +0000

“You don’t counsel people who have lost their jobs. You are not counselors, you’re not therapists. You can free yourself from that notion.”

While I agree with the therapist here, and am a huge fan of boundaries, and of referring when one is asked to do something beyond one’s ability, I see no response to the obvious follow-up:

“OK. Tell that to our parishioners. And what do we do when they inevitably come to us with these problems? Just telling them we’re not counselors won’t stop them from trying to seek counseling!”