Comments on: One nation, under God, indivisible

By: Blogroll Roundup « Heart Renovation

Blogroll Roundup « Heart Renovation — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 03:35:19 +0000

[...] Howard Merritt has a interesting post about the flags in church and the whole God vs. country debate. I immediately thought of two of my [...]

By: tribal church

tribal church — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:56:24 +0000

Neil, no Three Kings? You don’t mess around! Point taken though. We do need to think about what we’re saying, singing, displaying.

Adam, it’s a very interesting chapel. I love how much light pours into it, even with the stained glass. I hope you keep writing on this. The thing that struck me about Diana’s article was her saying that her church’s history is not just the history of the WW2 parents, it’s also about a new generation. I know that I’ve often acquiesced to an older generation because of pastoral care issues, etc. But maybe it’s time that we begin hammering these things out for ourselves…. After all, we’re not just meeting in grandma’s house to pray, it’s our house too.

Both of your comments remind me of my good friend, Beth, a pastor in Louisiana, who got so weary of the post-9-11 “God Bless America” signs all over town, that she put a “God Bless ALL Nations” sticker on her car.

I wondered what the GBA signs were all about… were they prayers? Were they statements of fact? Were they commands to God? Were they reminders? I think of them as supplications, but they often have that brash, God’s-on-our-side quality….

By: Neil

Neil — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:37:06 +0000

Interesting that the subject seems to be shifting to songs. I remember the reaction I had the first time I heard “America the Beautiful.” I was about 23 years old and had been in the US for about a month. I thought, “What the @#$%! When did Christians start singing songs in worship where the subject matter was the nation?” America, America, God shed his grace on thee!

I have much less of an issue with ‘God bless America’ or ‘My Country ’tis of Thee.’ Where at least the subject matter is God and God’s relationship with the nation.

Of course I’m also the guy who just told our music director that we shouldn’t sing “We Three Kings” because there weren’t three and they weren’t kings! (She agreed) Sometimes we need to stop long enough to truly reflect on what we are doing and saying.

By: Adam Copeland

Adam Copeland — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:48:45 +0000

I wrote my seminary scholarship essay on flags in church, so I could say plenty. Much of what formed me, however, is the flags of Boe Chapel at St. Olaf College.

Here’s a virtual tour link. Just click up a bit an you can see the entire sanctuary.

http://www.stolaf.edu/virtualtour/boe.shtml

If we sing, “O God of Every Nation” we can also try to put up the flags of every nation of God. St. Olaf owns them all and rotates on some sort of schedue.

http://adamcopeland.wordpress.com

By: tribal church

tribal church — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:46:48 +0000

Excellent article. I would say we need to engage in these discussions post March 20, 2003 as well. The Iraq war has had a major impact on my thinking on these things.

By: Richard Bass

Richard Bass — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:19:58 +0000

Here’s a post-September 11 reflection from Diana Butler Bass: “Lift High the Flag … Oops the Cross!”

http://www.alban.org/conversation.aspx?id=3344

By: Susan O

Susan O — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:37:21 +0000

I did the flags in the vestibule thing, too. And with the same rationale….the American government gives us the freedom to worship as we choose, and we choose to worship a God with no political boundaries. The vets were fine with that, once it was explained. And several make a point of saluting it as they enter the worship space, which is fine.

We had an ongoing battle with teh Boy Scouts, who repeatedly moved it into the sanctuary for their ceremonies and then it was left there, causing drama.

By: tribal church

tribal church — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:31:41 +0000

How did the Episcopal flag develop?

By: tribal church

tribal church — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:06:19 +0000

I’ve never heard about putting the flag by the door. That makes some sense. If I had my choice, I wouldn’t have the flag in the sanctuary at all. But I don’t always have my choice. Our book says that elders have the final word on the sanctuary.

By: Ann

Ann — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:26:09 +0000

No flags when I arrived. Some said they wanted them. I said the chancel was no place for flags. Absolutely. Fortunately in our church, the pastor has the final say. I finally, in honor of all the Veterans in our church (some WWII), allowed someone to donate an outside flagpole with a mulched, planted bed around it. We hang only the American Flag, because of course, the Christian flag (or in our case, the Episcopal flag)would appropriately hang ABOVE the American flag — but I don’t want to stir that pot at all. But I have no qualms about NOT having a flag in the chancel — the state has no place in the church. I have a friend who, in the first week of her tenure, marched the flag down the aisle and stood it by the door. Her rationale was that this was the appropriate place, to honor as we “re-entered the world” at the end of the service. If I ever have to face that quandary, I’ll follow her lead!