Comments on: Hope does not disappoint

By: John M

John M — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:08:41 +0000

Dom Helder Camera (1909-1999), the bishop of Recife, Brazil, went to Vatican II asking the Church sell everything; give it to the poor, and suggesting that the Pope begin living as the humble Bishop of Rome.

Think of it, selling the Presbyterian Foundation, all our churches and properties. Sell everything and give it to the poor. Then begin following Jesus anew the on the road to Jerusalem.

An endowment is a curse. It allows the survival of a church long after it ceases to fulfill its mission. Daniel Berigan, in his new book “The Kings and their Gods” mocks Solomon’s building of the temple as more for himself and his glory than for Yahweh. How proud we are of our church buildings. Why not rent space and spend the rest on accomplishing the mission Jesus set for us.

Sorry, I know this is preachy.

From a sixty-five year old Presbyterian, I like what I see in the emerging movement: less attachment to institutional structures and doctrines, a discipleship of equals and a commitment to justice and peace. You give me hope.

By: Shekinah Glory

Shekinah Glory — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:54:47 +0000

Let’s hope that part of the change is transparency. I am tired of back room deals amongst supposedly democratic systems. When naive leadership and financial mismanagement happen we wonder why people lose confidence in our system. Our presbytery’s assets are currently being frozen by the bank because of our risky business dealings. It has cost our Presbytery about $28 million and counting while I heard that our portfolio has lost about 8% or somewhere near $2 million dollars. This has eroded my confidence in the leadership of our Presbytery (National Capital). Yet, I am almost sure that we will never be privy to the entire story unless I ask “important” ministers that are in the loop of information. Unfortunately, when we do get the type of information that we need it will already be in the midst of crisis.

By: Carol Howard Merritt

Carol Howard Merritt — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:37:58 +0000

Andy, another good question. It was interesting… my colleague showed me the list of GA Moderators, and pointed out that there has only been one Boomer Moderator. That was Susan Andrews. They were all older. Then there were 2 Xers, Rick and Bruce.

But, of course, Boomers are all over the GAC, etc. And the people who control the Presbyteries do seem to be of one generation, and I don’t really see the Boomers stepping aside too quickly in our corner of the church. (Not that I have anything against Boomers, mind you.)

I guess the question there is, where will the change come from? Do middle governing bodies change cultures? They could have a vital, positive impact, when they’re healthy and vibrant. They could provide resources and support when they’re at their best.

But when governing bodies are in a shambles, that doesn’t seem to have a trickle down effect (anyone have a different experience?).

In our current shift, power is moving to the edges, and it’s from the edges that things will evolve. Or, in our case, the congregations.

When people from our church go to the Presbytery meeting, they are usually shocked and confused by it. They don’t feel at all connected to what happens there. I know that goes against our ideals of a “connectional church,” but I think it’s more of the reality.

By: Andy

Andy — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:11:07 +0000

Two questions, both sincerely asked:

1. Ryan: Exactly which heresy of yesterday is now considered orthodoxy? (I mean heresy in the technical sense)

2. Carol: Will the honorably retired Boomer ministers allow younger ministers to lead, or will they maintain control of Presbytery meetings? If there are many boomers approaching retirement–that will yet remain active in presbytery, this seems to be a real question.

By: monica hall

monica hall — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:28:24 +0000

this guy from my presbytery last semester told me there is something about the whole death and resurrection thing that gives him hope…a generation that passes away resurrects something else…

By: Carol Howard Merritt

Carol Howard Merritt — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:30:27 +0000

Oh, and Jessica. Didn’t mean to ignore your questions, just trying to think of an apt response. Which… I’m having a hard time doing. I just know that you’re right. The present moment is the most difficult one. There’s all this grief because we are losing members, they’re pointing fingers, blaming others (especially younger generations). It’s a tough and painful situation.

By: Carol Howard Merritt

Carol Howard Merritt — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:37:59 +0000

Yep. And if there’s ever any doubt, I always like to err on the side of grace.

Ruth, I’m with you. I’ll be posting soon on our “issues.” Just sorting it out right now…

By: Ryan Kemp-Pappan

Ryan Kemp-Pappan — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:29:06 +0000

I enjoy the vision God has given me. I exclude none and let God sort it out. BTW, Carol I read Barth as a universalist as well.

Besides todays heresy is tomorrows orthodoxy. What if I am so emerging that I have transcended postmodernism and am in a new category entirely occupied by universal lights of universal “ness”?

I am just saying…only God knows the answer to “What WOULD jesus do?”

By: Carol Howard Merritt

Carol Howard Merritt — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:01:34 +0000

Ouch. C’mon now… Barth was a Universalist. At least the way I read him.

By: Timothy Blodgett

Timothy Blodgett — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:32:25 +0000

Pappan, Admitting that you have a problem is the first step to doing something about it.