Are we counselors?
Posted by Carol Howard Merritt on 17 Nov 2009 at 12:01 pm | Tagged as: church, economy, pastors
Recently, we had a continuing education event at our church on responding to the economic crisis. As we all know, even though the markets are up, and things seem to be stable, the unemployment rate is still high. While the general population is moving on with their Christmas shopping, a huge percentage of our country is still unemployed, trying to get a job in an incredibly tight market. So the needs in our congregations, as well as the level of anxiety and depression, can be quite high.
So we gathered, with two counselors, to find out how to best support people who are suffering during this time–our friends, our loved ones, our members, and often ourselves. One pastor began his question, “When we counsel people who have lost their jobs….”
And the counselor stopped him and said, “You don’t counsel people who have lost their jobs. You are not counselors, you’re not therapists. You can free yourself from that notion.”
It was a relief, in a sense. There are many times when I realize the huge difference between the relationship between a pastor/parishioner and a therapist/patient. When a patient sees a therapist, and then runs into that person in the grocery story, the therapist is not allowed to speak to her patient. The boundaries are set and clear.
When the therapist says something that angers a patient, the patient may discontinue the services, but it probably won’t hurt the therapist too much.
However, when someone comes to see us, we are not in a position to speak truth for an hour and say good-bye. The boundaries are a lot more fluid than that. We always greet them in the grocery store. We are intimately involved with the births, deaths, weddings, and sicknesses in their lives.
I’m not sure that we have the ability to speak the truth in the same way. Although we usually have more trust built in our relationships, we have to live with the consequences in a much more profound way. For instance, most of us have heard of pastors who counseled a spouse to leave a marriage, and then they were forced out of their jobs, or suffered retaliation within the congregation as a result.
All in all, it’s messy. But I don’t know that we can divorce ourselves from the notion altogether.
In Louisiana, pastors did a lot of counseling because it was a rural town, and there were no therapists available. In Rhode Island, pastors did a lot of counseling, because it was a pretty traditional place, and people were often more comfortable talking to their pastor than they were going to a professional counselor. In DC, pastors do a lot of counseling because a visit with me does not show up on medical records or a security clearance.
Also, you don’t have to wait a month to talk to a pastor. We are available, when people need us. The person does not need insurance or even money to talk to us at the moment of distress.
In different parts of the country, in the wealthiest areas and the poorest areas, there was usually a reason why people went to their pastor. There are just many times when we are the counselor. And I feel equipped to be—at least—a gateway to more professional care. And I know that I can provide things that many counselors cannot—like prayer and spiritual direction.
So what do you think? Should pastors be counselors? Are we counselors whether we like it or not? Is the relationship too enmeshed to really do any good?
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A lot of churches want someone who can do counseling. I generally tell people when they come to me that I will meet with them a few times. If I can’t help them in a few sessions, they probably need someone more training.
It can be tricky and at times uncomfortable for me. It was hard to talk with a member who came to me about his sex addiction. But I was still his pastor and needed to be there for him spiritually. But I do like being able to pray with people in need and encourage them to read scripture for guidance.
I feel qualified to offer counsel in some spiritual and religious matters, but I rely on other type of counselors for most other things.
When areas outside my expertise and training arise, I often tell people that I’m not a trained counselor but I am a trained listener. Then I can let them know when I feel they need more than someone to listen. We routinely make referrals to specific counselors and therapists and provide funds to help with these expenses if needed.
Ditto, and ditto.
I am fully ware that I am not trained to offer any type of formal therapy. However, after dealing with people for so many years now, there some things I get, even if it’s only when to refer someone to a trained professional.
I think it is part of our role, and I think our responsibility is to be absolutely clear with ourselves what we are capable of handling and what we are not.
Like all pastors I’ve been thrown into some really interesting situations (Never thought I would spend a day putting together search parties.), but on the day-to-day it has been more about needing someone to listen. People thinking their teenager is the only one who doesn’t listen. People worried about losing their jobs. People beginning to see through the facade of accumulating stuff. In that regard, I do think we are called to listen and perhaps offer some counsel.
I agree with the distinction between listening and counseling. The former is something of a spiritual practice, the latter sounds more clinical to me. I often remind people that I am a trained theologian, that my degree is not in therapeutic psychology. As it is I find an awful lot of what passes for church these days to be more along the lines of therapy and self-help, which IMO is pretty tepid and unsatisfying form of discipleship.
As a pastor I know I am not a therapist or social worker. I don’t want to be considered a “counselor” but I know for a fact that I offer counsel to people who seek it- wisdom, objectivity, and new ideas. Sometimes this comes from asking them lots of questions and they figure out their own solution.
When someone has lost a job I would a expect a pastor’s counsel to include the question, “Where is God in this?” Those are the sorts of issues people need to wrestle with that I wouldn’t expect a therapist or “counselor” to deal with.
Mental health issues, or something that goes deeper that I’m not equipped to handle? refer, refer, refer!
I’ve struggled with these questions. I think part of my issue is that I am fully aware of my limitations, but when faced with a person who desperately needs counseling but lacks the resources or ability to seek professional therapy, I desperately wish I were better educated and credentialed to do more than I can. I do think that the pastor’s work of listening, praying, and loving is crucial. Because that’s really one of the huge differences between the pastor-parishioner relationship and the therapist-client relationship: we are charged to love our “flock” (and greet them in the grocery store). While a pastor is not a replacement for a trained therapist, our unique role is nevertheless important.
I hope when I am a minister to be able to do that too.
You are not a counselor? That seems a bit rude and arrogant. Pastors are counselors. They are present during times of extreme grief, joy, confusion, doubt, anxiety, sickness and all the rest. They, hopefully, listen with prayerful hearts. They offer appropriate guidance. Most important, they seek that place where God’s grace might be made visible. Most pastors are not therapists and do not have in depth training in addressing mental illnesses, but I think most are well aware of their limitations and quick to make referrals at the right time. We did go through a brief moment when seminaries put a lot of effort into training pastors in therapeutic models of pastoral counseling. Thankfully, it was a brief period, but it did recognize that pastoral counseling comes with the territory and there is nothing one can do to stop it, so you might as well learn to do it right.
CP
“You don’t counsel people who have lost their jobs. You are not counselors, you’re not therapists. You can free yourself from that notion.”
While I agree with the therapist here, and am a huge fan of boundaries, and of referring when one is asked to do something beyond one’s ability, I see no response to the obvious follow-up:
“OK. Tell that to our parishioners. And what do we do when they inevitably come to us with these problems? Just telling them we’re not counselors won’t stop them from trying to seek counseling!”
As a chaplain working in the marketplace (restaurants, insurance companies, automotive service centers), we are told to emphasize that we do not counsel. However, we do have “confidential pastoral discussions.”
This releases us from the liability that is involved in the traditional counseling situations.
Of course, confidential pastoral discussions look and smell a lot like counseling sessions. However, we are free to pray and give scriptual and spiritual direction. While we never give chapter and verse, most scriptural advice is good common sense.
As someone who struggles with mental illness, I know when to contact a psychiatrist, when to see a therapist, and when to talk to my pastor. Each person has a specific role in my mental health care. Sometimes the only thing that really helps me when I’m feeling particularly manic or depressed is to pray with a minister. I think it’s important to remember that we are whole people: our mental, physical, and spiritual selves cannot be separated. So, we may need “counseling” in many different ways, especially in spiritual, pastoral ways. Thank you to all of the pastors out there who lend an ear and offer prayers! We need your “counseling” just as much as we need mental health professionals.
As a result of my CPE training I often counsel in groups. Typically with college students and young adults they are more guarded about their emotional issues and questions, they feel as if their faults are “their Fualt”. When we break out, I ofetn get one or two who want to follow up. I do much the same as many of you because I am not lisenced, I just try to be a empathedic listener. But I have noticed one trend in all my years of these follow up sessions, %99 of my young adults and students that follow with me the two or three times we meet fall into Two Groups; 1.) The one who wants permission 2.) the one who wants forgiveness…….They never say it right out, but that is the basis of the visit. Peace….
In short, yes, as a pastor, I am a also a *pastoral* (rather than clinical) counselor. I think that part of our seminary training is in basic counseling and pastoral care practices, and in my presbytery at least I was required to complete at least one unit of CPE (I went on to complete a full year, but at first that was mostly because I needed a paying job of some kind). I like to assume that this is for a reason, and that reason is not to be told I am not allowed to counsel anyone. Why did I waste all that time and money learning how to counsel people then?
Counselors are crucial for clinical care – but not all care is clinical care; not by a long shot. I think that in our culture we tend to be a little fetishistic about having a clinician to talk to, which goes hand-in-hand with what I think is over-diagnosing across the board.
Lots of people can’t afford the hundred bucks a session to see a counselor once a week, and lots of churches can’t afford to help pay for that service. Much of the time, frankly, it isn’t necessary. There are pastors who are bad at counseling and there are counselors who are bad at counseling. There are also things a counselor can deal with best (such as genuine mental illness, in which case clinical training is a huge help) but there are also things a pastor can do better.
I saw this personally in my year of work at the hospital as a chaplain in the behavioral health departments. I worked well with the clinicians with inpatients and outpatients both, and we collaborated with patient care, but it was clear that I had advantages that were different from theirs.
I would say for behavioral health or mental health issues, such as major depression, bipolar, borderline personality, and maybe addiction, a clinical counselor can be very important to add into the mix. Even then, though, I wouldn’t hand the person off, I’d just recognize that they also need some clinical care to complement my pastoral care.
The most important consideration for me, though, is almost always humility. I can’t assume that I am qualified to do everything in the world, and I need to know what to do when I hit a limit of my proficiency. I can, however, have a good sense of where my strengths and competencies actually are, and not let someone else tell me what I can and can’t do to care for someone
As a former counselor/psychotherapist, now a minister, I see the point that was being made but, like others, disagree that the distinction is that clear-cut. In my practice, I frequently received referrals from clergy for issues that went beyond their role; I particularly remember the clergy who needed another professional to ratify decisions they had made not to perform weddings.
Now, though I am trained in clinical work, I don’t do much of it, even in pastoral counseling situations. Apart from the reality that I simply don’t have that much available time, I think it is important to help folks get the care that best fits their needs, and my role is only one part of that. I’m blessed, though, to be able to respond to folks on both the pastoral and the clinical levels.
Like it or not, we are counselors, often the first point of contact for people who are struggling. We need to take that seriously, I think.
There’s nothing I love more than a pastor who is willing to lean into the deeper pain and problems in the lives of the sheep. They can be such a taste of Jesus. They can be life-changing. However, I am a therapist as well and too often find myself working with people with wounds that have been inflicted by well-meaning pastors who really don’t know how to counsel. The few counseling courses we got in seminary really aren’t enough. I guess I want to encourage the shepherding heart but remind all the good shepherds to be careful and walk in people’s hearts with their shoes removed. Blessings on your work, everyone.
I think the general consensus in the comments above is that pastors do some level of counseling in their jobs. I was wondering if lay people expect different things or seek counseling for different reasons, depending on if the pastor is a man or a woman. Also how does age and ethnicity play into the pastor’s role as a counselor?
This debate is not limited to clergy. Doctors, nurses, social workers, case workers, cops, teachers, etc. have an informal “counseling” role. Even volunteer mentors do some things similar to “counseling.” Friends and relatives too.
Obviously, these types of “counseling” are not the same as formal counseling, but they happen and can be very beneficial.